Comments on: To LEED Or Not To LEED? http://www.ljurban.com/2007/06/21/to-leed-or-not-to-leed/ Dream Big. Live Small. Do Good. Wed, 10 Feb 2010 05:13:30 +0200 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: Alec http://www.ljurban.com/2007/06/21/to-leed-or-not-to-leed/comment-page-1/#comment-5785 Alec Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:35:19 +0000 http://emrlmediagroup.com/wordpress/?p=132#comment-5785 The criticism here is that LEED certification and councelling costs could potentially go into green features. I would agree with this point only in the case of an experienced green builder or someone who has "deep" green motivations. In any other case - especially unscrupulous large volume builders - I think the certification is definitely necessary, since it ensures that a third party actually verified details in the house. The criticism here is that LEED certification and councelling costs could potentially go into green features. I would agree with this point only in the case of an experienced green builder or someone who has “deep” green motivations. In any other case – especially unscrupulous large volume builders – I think the certification is definitely necessary, since it ensures that a third party actually verified details in the house.

]]> By: Amie http://www.ljurban.com/2007/06/21/to-leed-or-not-to-leed/comment-page-1/#comment-1173 Amie Wed, 16 Apr 2008 04:20:00 +0000 http://emrlmediagroup.com/wordpress/?p=132#comment-1173 Omkar- As a Planner, you have to recognize that the best thing for the environment is dense, urban, mixed use development. LEED's main shortcoming is that it doesn't offer enough points for dense development. Forget "urban fabric", we've got bigger fish to fry. Omkar- As a Planner, you have to recognize that the best thing for the environment is dense, urban, mixed use development. LEED’s main shortcoming is that it doesn’t offer enough points for dense development. Forget “urban fabric”, we’ve got bigger fish to fry.

]]> By: dan http://www.ljurban.com/2007/06/21/to-leed-or-not-to-leed/comment-page-1/#comment-252 dan Fri, 27 Jul 2007 20:45:27 +0000 http://emrlmediagroup.com/wordpress/?p=132#comment-252 Right-on James! I'm interested in hearing about some of the other green strategies you are using in your old home. I have a 120 y/o Victorian... Right-on James! I’m interested in hearing about some of the other green strategies you are using in your old home. I have a 120 y/o Victorian…

]]> By: James http://www.ljurban.com/2007/06/21/to-leed-or-not-to-leed/comment-page-1/#comment-253 James Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:55:21 +0000 http://emrlmediagroup.com/wordpress/?p=132#comment-253 Great thread here! I found this blog doing a Google search on "the added value of LEED homes" which I've been researching. First, my background: I am an architect working for a firm that is developing 6 or so residential projects that will be LEED for Homes certified. For our firm I think going through the LEED program makes sense. It is a recognized standard and it shows our level of commitment to good building practices to the local and professional community. But now let's look at my personal project... My wife and I are in the early planning stages of a complete gut of our 150 year old, 1100 SF row house in Philadelphia. We are on a very tight budget, we do not have extravagant tastes, we are both highly committed to a "green" lifestyle, and I actually know how to design our house to LEED standards. We were both initially very excited about the idea of having our house LEED certified until I got the estimate from the local Provider. $3500 for everything. Huh. Like I said, there is no fat to cut on this project. We are only getting done what is absolutely necessary (everything in this old house it seems) and there is no $25/sf glass tile. The only thing we can really cut that isn't necessary for the house to be livable are the solar hot water tubes for the radiant floor system, which costs, you guessed it, around $3500. So, which is it, the LEED logo on the side of our house or a solar hot water system that reduces our gas bill and carbon footprint? I know which way I'm leaning. Not to mention the benefit of not having to deal with another consultant or file tons of paperwork. As for the added value of LEED to the resale of our house, well, we're staying put for at least ten years, and who knows what the "green standard" will be by then. Hopefully enough people will be educated about green building practices in 10 years they will understand what we did and what it's worth without needing an endorsement by "the establishment" :) Great thread here! I found this blog doing a Google search on “the added value of LEED homes” which I’ve been researching. First, my background: I am an architect working for a firm that is developing 6 or so residential projects that will be LEED for Homes certified. For our firm I think going through the LEED program makes sense. It is a recognized standard and it shows our level of commitment to good building practices to the local and professional community. But now let’s look at my personal project…

My wife and I are in the early planning stages of a complete gut of our 150 year old, 1100 SF row house in Philadelphia. We are on a very tight budget, we do not have extravagant tastes, we are both highly committed to a “green” lifestyle, and I actually know how to design our house to LEED standards. We were both initially very excited about the idea of having our house LEED certified until I got the estimate from the local Provider. $3500 for everything. Huh.

Like I said, there is no fat to cut on this project. We are only getting done what is absolutely necessary (everything in this old house it seems) and there is no $25/sf glass tile. The only thing we can really cut that isn’t necessary for the house to be livable are the solar hot water tubes for the radiant floor system, which costs, you guessed it, around $3500.

So, which is it, the LEED logo on the side of our house or a solar hot water system that reduces our gas bill and carbon footprint? I know which way I’m leaning. Not to mention the benefit of not having to deal with another consultant or file tons of paperwork.

As for the added value of LEED to the resale of our house, well, we’re staying put for at least ten years, and who knows what the “green standard” will be by then. Hopefully enough people will be educated about green building practices in 10 years they will understand what we did and what it’s worth without needing an endorsement by “the establishment” :)

]]> By: Omkar http://www.ljurban.com/2007/06/21/to-leed-or-not-to-leed/comment-page-1/#comment-254 Omkar Thu, 05 Jul 2007 22:58:31 +0000 http://emrlmediagroup.com/wordpress/?p=132#comment-254 Well i am new to this debate we are having. I am planning to critique the LEEd ND document for My Masters Paper. The biggest fault i think with LEEd is that it is only from the level of Subdivisions, it needs to expand its horizon to urban planning and even political scale. No thought is given to how it will be used in the Urban fabric and make sense as city. Giving max points for the location criteria is good but what impact the development will have is not addressed. What happens to the brown field area is not covered or guided by LEED ND. These lacunae give the developers huge chance to advertise smart growth communities without actually doing a thing for the environment. As always there are personal opinions anyone is free to disagree. Omkar Well i am new to this debate we are having. I am planning to critique the LEEd ND document for My Masters Paper. The biggest fault i think with LEEd is that it is only from the level of Subdivisions, it needs to expand its horizon to urban planning and even political scale. No thought is given to how it will be used in the Urban fabric and make sense as city. Giving max points for the location criteria is good but what impact the development will have is not addressed. What happens to the brown field area is not covered or guided by LEED ND. These lacunae give the developers huge chance to advertise smart growth communities without actually doing a thing for the environment.
As always there are personal opinions anyone is free to disagree.
Omkar

]]> By: wburg http://www.ljurban.com/2007/06/21/to-leed-or-not-to-leed/comment-page-1/#comment-255 wburg Tue, 03 Jul 2007 21:18:37 +0000 http://emrlmediagroup.com/wordpress/?p=132#comment-255 Standards exist in historic preservation too (such as Secretary of Interior standards,) and if they aren't followed, it's not hard to dupe people who aren't familiar with the standards, even if they have an interest in the subject. Maybe I'm just cynical (okay, no "maybe" about it) but idealists are alarmingly easy to dupe. Standards exist in historic preservation too (such as Secretary of Interior standards,) and if they aren’t followed, it’s not hard to dupe people who aren’t familiar with the standards, even if they have an interest in the subject. Maybe I’m just cynical (okay, no “maybe” about it) but idealists are alarmingly easy to dupe.

]]> By: Amanda http://www.ljurban.com/2007/06/21/to-leed-or-not-to-leed/comment-page-1/#comment-256 Amanda Tue, 03 Jul 2007 02:42:33 +0000 http://emrlmediagroup.com/wordpress/?p=132#comment-256 bill:I think people are attracted to green building will be knowledgeable about green technologies and they are the most likely to want to buy in one of lj urban's developments. People who buy the greenwashing are only interesting the veneer. And I honestly think there are very few people who actually fall for the greenwashing with honest intentions to buy green. I think best good would be to convince those people that are living in a greenwashed neighbor that they should demand more. I am not sure that a LEED certification would do that. I go through this same type of arguement with people when I am discussing retaining old windows versus caving to the vinyl window salesmen. Those people who truly love their period houses will listen to the discussion but people who buy old houses but don't value their character tend to create a McMansion from a quaint small Tudor Revival. Just my two cents. bill:I think people are attracted to green building will be knowledgeable about green technologies and they are the most likely to want to buy in one of lj urban’s developments. People who buy the greenwashing are only interesting the veneer. And I honestly think there are very few people who actually fall for the greenwashing with honest intentions to buy green. I think best good would be to convince those people that are living in a greenwashed neighbor that they should demand more. I am not sure that a LEED certification would do that.

I go through this same type of arguement with people when I am discussing retaining old windows versus caving to the vinyl window salesmen. Those people who truly love their period houses will listen to the discussion but people who buy old houses but don’t value their character tend to create a McMansion from a quaint small Tudor Revival.

Just my two cents.

]]> By: wburg http://www.ljurban.com/2007/06/21/to-leed-or-not-to-leed/comment-page-1/#comment-257 wburg Thu, 28 Jun 2007 21:56:28 +0000 http://emrlmediagroup.com/wordpress/?p=132#comment-257 amanda: Unfortuately, it takes more than the developer's intent that they are building green. If there are no standards to follow, I can crank out a leaky energy sieve of a building, send the previous structure to the landfill, use materials and techniques that ensure a carbon footprint the size of a football field, then slap on a tree and a recycling bin and a "green building!" sign out in front, and presto, I'm a green builder! In other words, intent simply isn't enough. LEED isn't a perfect standard, but it is the current standard. amanda: Unfortuately, it takes more than the developer’s intent that they are building green. If there are no standards to follow, I can crank out a leaky energy sieve of a building, send the previous structure to the landfill, use materials and techniques that ensure a carbon footprint the size of a football field, then slap on a tree and a recycling bin and a “green building!” sign out in front, and presto, I’m a green builder!

In other words, intent simply isn’t enough. LEED isn’t a perfect standard, but it is the current standard.

]]> By: Amanda http://www.ljurban.com/2007/06/21/to-leed-or-not-to-leed/comment-page-1/#comment-258 Amanda Wed, 27 Jun 2007 20:33:45 +0000 http://emrlmediagroup.com/wordpress/?p=132#comment-258 I would skip the LEED certification and spend the money on the extra features. LEED certification isn't really developed for the eco-developer and so why jump through the hoops of the certification if your intent to build green is already there? I would skip the LEED certification and spend the money on the extra features. LEED certification isn’t really developed for the eco-developer and so why jump through the hoops of the certification if your intent to build green is already there?

]]> By: Levi http://www.ljurban.com/2007/06/21/to-leed-or-not-to-leed/comment-page-1/#comment-259 Levi Wed, 27 Jun 2007 04:18:06 +0000 http://emrlmediagroup.com/wordpress/?p=132#comment-259 Another variable that is comming up in the discusion is the continued value of LEED homes VS. ones that the developer says are green. LEED has been shown to improve sustained property value. A good thing for our mission to build projects whos contribution increases over time..... Its a tough call. I personally agree with Greg that I would rather have real value built in than a certificate. But on the flip side I would want my house to be worth more than any other house in the area to. Another variable that is comming up in the discusion is the continued value of LEED homes VS. ones that the developer says are green. LEED has been shown to improve sustained property value. A good thing for our mission to build projects whos contribution increases over time….. Its a tough call. I personally agree with Greg that I would rather have real value built in than a certificate. But on the flip side I would want my house to be worth more than any other house in the area to.

]]> By: Vanessa http://www.ljurban.com/2007/06/21/to-leed-or-not-to-leed/comment-page-1/#comment-260 Vanessa Tue, 26 Jun 2007 02:30:51 +0000 http://emrlmediagroup.com/wordpress/?p=132#comment-260 Liking the feedback, the problem is I agree with both of you... and I'd like to give the buyer both! (And you're both telling us what we want to hear? maybe) I agree with wburg that LEED is getting to be the standard for green building and we should start moving to support that, that is important. But my major struggle is that I hate that we are spending our money on an amentity that doesn't "guarantee use" in quite the same way insulation or cork or upgraded windows would. I'll keep you posted on our further discussion Liking the feedback, the problem is I agree with both of you… and I’d like to give the buyer both!
(And you’re both telling us what we want to hear? maybe)

I agree with wburg that LEED is getting to be the standard for green building and we should start moving to support that, that is important.
But my major struggle is that I hate that we are spending our money on an amentity that doesn’t “guarantee use” in quite the same way insulation or cork or upgraded windows would.

I’ll keep you posted on our further discussion

]]> By: Greg http://www.ljurban.com/2007/06/21/to-leed-or-not-to-leed/comment-page-1/#comment-261 Greg Sun, 24 Jun 2007 03:11:30 +0000 http://emrlmediagroup.com/wordpress/?p=132#comment-261 I am probably too old to be in your demographic - but if I were buying one of these units, I'd rather have the $1800/unit spent on the cork floor or extra insulation. If you want to make me feel good - do a one page cut sheet explaining what green features that the homes have. Just one man's opinion. I am probably too old to be in your demographic – but if I were buying one of these units, I’d rather have the $1800/unit spent on the cork floor or extra insulation. If you want to make me feel good – do a one page cut sheet explaining what green features that the homes have. Just one man’s opinion.

]]> By: wburg http://www.ljurban.com/2007/06/21/to-leed-or-not-to-leed/comment-page-1/#comment-262 wburg Sat, 23 Jun 2007 01:25:11 +0000 http://emrlmediagroup.com/wordpress/?p=132#comment-262 If you don't take the lead with LEED, it's hard to say why other developers with less commitment would have a reason to. You've set yourself a very high standard, and despite being new to the game you already have imitators (generally, pale ones.) LEED isn't perfect but it is the de facto standard. It's also a system that makes doing the right thing environmentally a better marketing point. It's also an amenity that guarantees use: one of the more popular enhancements lately, a free scooter, has problems because most of those free scooters never get used. If it sounds like I'm just repeating your own points back to you, it's because I am: it sounds like you want to hear someone tell you that you're on the right track to pursue LEED certification, and I'm here to tell you that I think you are. If you don’t take the lead with LEED, it’s hard to say why other developers with less commitment would have a reason to. You’ve set yourself a very high standard, and despite being new to the game you already have imitators (generally, pale ones.) LEED isn’t perfect but it is the de facto standard. It’s also a system that makes doing the right thing environmentally a better marketing point. It’s also an amenity that guarantees use: one of the more popular enhancements lately, a free scooter, has problems because most of those free scooters never get used.

If it sounds like I’m just repeating your own points back to you, it’s because I am: it sounds like you want to hear someone tell you that you’re on the right track to pursue LEED certification, and I’m here to tell you that I think you are.

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